#39 : How do you find a good property manager?

 
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One of the most common complaints I hear in the real estate world is that it feels almost impossible to find good property managers. This is especially frustrating when you want to simply be the investor for a property, not dealing with day-to-day issues that a landlord or property might handle. Today’s guest is hoping this frustration will soon be a thing of the past with the help of technology.

Steve Rozenberg has owned a 39-unit apartment building and over 40 single family homes. He is a commercial Airline Pilot who became an investor after 9/11 threatened his "secure" livelihood. Now he teaches others about the business of real estate and how to be a smart investor. He is also working with property management company Mynd, which is using tech to make the rental experience better for owners and tenants alike.

Steve and I talk about his journey into investing, common mistakes he sees real estate investors making, and what he learned from some of his big mistakes early in his investing career. We also discuss how tech can help you become a better investor, how to find (and vet) a great property manager, and how Mynd is combining real estate experience with tech to change the property management industry.

In this episode, we’re discussing…

  • Why so many property management companies fail to run their operation like a real business.

  • What to ask a property management company BEFORE you hire them.

  • Why buying property is like getting on the freeway toward your goals.

  • The key differences between being a landlord vs. being an investor.

  • How entrepreneurs can embrace tech to make their property management better and take back their time.

Steve’s Top Tips:

  • Buy a property if it helps you meet a specific goal – not just because it’s a “good deal”. You can’t really know if a certain property is a good deal if you don’t know what your goal is or where you want to end up. So start by setting goals and then choosing strategies that match - not the other way around!

  • If your property management company stinks, that’s on you – as the CEO of your real estate business, it’s up to you to properly vet anyone you work with before you hire them. Be willing to take responsibility for doing your due diligence!

  • Tech gives us a huge opportunity to improve property management – it can be smoother for investors, landlords, managers, and tenants to buy, sell, and rent property. By providing useful data and automating tasks, intelligently applied tech can change the face of property management.

Resources:

 

+ Read the transcript

What if you could be doing something smarter with your money that creates income right now? If you're an IT professional who is wanting to get ahead financially and enjoy greater freedom of choice. And if you wonder who else in tech is creating ways to make their money work for them? You want actionable ideas with honest pros and cons and no fluff. Welcome to The Richer Geek Podcast for helping IT professionals find creative ways to build wealth and financial freedom. I'm your host, Nicole Stohler and in this podcast, you'll hear from others who are already doing these things and learn how you can too.

Hey, everyone, welcome back to The Richer Geek Podcast. One of the most common complaints that I hear about with real estate investors is around the property management company. In today's episode, we're joined by Steve Rosenberg. He's an investor and he's also built a very successful property management company in Texas growing to manage over 1000 units. Now Steve is recently sold his company and he'll talk a little bit about that. But coming from that experience in building a successful property management company, he talks about goals and mindset, and also how to vet your property manager. He sent me a list of 20 questions like, do I receive a video of my pre and post to make ready? Or do you have charged for maintenance? This is an awesome list of questions to use to vet. If you're looking to hire property manager or maybe make a switch if you're not happy with how things are going. If you head over to the richer geek.com forward slash podcast page, and click on episode 39, you can sign up right there to download the full list of questions. Now, let's jump into the show. Steve, welcome to the show.

Thank you very much appreciate you having me on.

Let's start with a little bit of your background.

Sure. So I am in Houston Texas, I have a little bit different of a background than most I'm an airline pilot still am. I also am a real estate investor. I own real estate throughout Houston and I own a property management company or I own a property management company that was very successful throughout Texas. And we recently merged with another property management company Mynd property management and I'm now I've taken a role on with them, to help them expand their positioning throughout the US.

Thank you. Let's start with your background. First, we'll come back to Mynd because we definitely want to hear about that. But you wrote a book that's called failing to millions. Yeah. And tell us a little bit about that book and some of the key failures that you're talking about in that book.

Sure. So um, you know, my story kind of began at 9/11. I had that safe, secure job as an airline pilot. I did it out of love. I love it. I still do it because I love it. But the safe secure job was anything but safe and secure after that date, and So I tell people on September 10, I had the best job in the world and the most safe, secure job in the world on September 13, that was delivered a furlough noticing you're no longer possibly needed, and you may have to look for a new career. So that was a real eye opening moment. For me. I had never wanted to do anything else. I never looked at having another job, another career and other backup. So I had to really start learning about what I could do in case the airline industry didn't work out because 911 out the days, weeks, months after it was very shaky. And so I started learning about real estate. And so I started reading everything I could about it as much as I could I read about a book a week to really understand real estate cuz I didn't know anything about it. No one in my family did it. No, I didn't know any of these gurus or anything. They you know, the internet wasn't as prominent. So the more I learned about it, the more I realized this is something I could do in conjunction with being a pilot. So I kind of went down that path, and I started wholesaling properties. After that I made enough money ended up buying an apartment complex. After the apartment complex, we sold that me in a business partner, we started buying some single family houses, which is where the mistake started happening because we thought we were the smartest people on earth because we just sold an apartment complex. And we got the school of hard knocks, if you will, promoting these houses and just had the wrong strategy, and wrong properties, wrong a lot of things. And we bought about another 15 after we bought the wrong ones. So we kept going deeper and deeper in the hole trying to think we could fix it because we were emotionally charged. And it was the worst thing that we could have done. And finally, we got to that that aha breaking point moment that everybody has, and I talked about it in my book that basically we realized that we were at the bottom of this thing and there was no other options. And we either needed to sell them which at the time was 2009 we couldn't get out of them. It's about 35 properties at the time in Houston, or we'd have to figure out a way to structure them to run them like a business. So we took That way, and we kind of climbed out of the out of the hill that way out of the hole rather, and created a strategy to manage our properties. And that went on to people asking us to manage their properties. We ended up getting a business coach, we were coached every week for the last seven years, we learned a lot of business strategies. And without our business coach, we would not be around. I can tell you that. And so we took our company, we grew it to the fastest growing company in Texas for property management. And we were at about 1000 properties. And we are known throughout the US as well as around the world. We had people 50 to 60% of our clients lived out of state and out of country. And I think the big portion of it and you and I talked about this offline was we ran it like a business and we understood how businesses work and we understand how businesses failed, because we are constantly being coached by a business coach that showed us how to run it properly and I think that was the key difference in us to other people. And you know, you hear all these horror stories about management companies. And it's because frankly, they're not running it like a business, I think is the problem is, and I don't come from this industry, I didn't come from real estate. I never wanted to be in real estate. And that's just my perspective of what I've learned throughout my past 18 years of doing this.

Thank you for sharing that story with us. There's so many things that you mentioned that are a little bit parallel with Mike and my original story, which you know, you read a book like Rich Dad, Poor Dad, you go out and you buy property, you take action, but you don't really know how to manage the property or manage your residence. Don't let them walk all over you. There's so many things that we did wrong as well. We did not take your path. I love that you said okay, you know, we can't sell it. This is still in the recession. Nobody wants to buy houses. And we have got to figure out a way to make it work. We actually ended up giving ours back and then Mike went into proper Management. So, you know, to learn the business. So if that's such a great story, tell us what are some of the things that just off the bat that you did wrong, that you see other people doing wrong commonly in that scenario? Sure.

Well, I think, you know, I'm not going to blame social media. But I think one of the challenges out there in this industry is number one, the good thing about real estate is there's no rules, you can do whatever you want to do. The bad thing about real estate is there's no rules. You can do whatever you want to do. And there's no one there to tell you, you've done something wrong, until you're standing in front of a judge or you get some kind of legal action. And I think the challenge that we have, like with this social media on demand world is everybody talks about the wins. And nobody talks about the challenges. And there's a lot of people out there that will tell you how to get a deal, how to find the property, how to flip the property, but that's not really creating wealth, that's creating a job and there's nothing wrong with doing that. But again, it's not taking you to a goal. That's just a strategy and so nobody tells you what do you do on day two, after the tenant moves in and says, I lost my job, I can't pay my rent, and I'm not leaving. There's no books or courses that I had found at the time. Maybe there are now that actually tell you those things. So I think the challenge that going back to your question that we have as entrepreneurs, is we ready shoot aim, right? So we think, Okay, you know what, I'm just going to get a house and figure it out. And that's what I did many, many times over. However, the money is made in your in your mind, I would say when you actually think the plan out. So I think the biggest challenge that entrepreneurs have or new investors is they never think of their end destination, their goal of why are they even owning this real estate? What is the real estate going to give you so a lot of people they think owning a piece of property is a goal. That's not a goal. That's like saying, I'm going to get on the freeway. First question is, where are you going? So the house is the freeway, what the house gives you as an end result is the destination. And so we can confuse I think a lot of us confuse definitions as to why we're even doing this. And I was one of them so I can talk from experience. And so I think that's the biggest challenges we don't. We don't slow down to speed up, we want to hurry up and be busy. And all of a sudden, we realize, I don't even know what I'm doing. I don't know if this is the right house, I can't afford the mortgage, the rents aren't right, because they don't do the work ahead of time. They think buying the house is the most important thing. I disagree. I think that's the smallest piece of the puzzle. I think setting up your goal, setting up your strategy and creating your team around you is really the most important thing, the house or the the asset that you purchase, whether it's a apartment, hotel, a hospital, whatever it is, that is the last piece of the puzzle that has already been pre determined based on your goal and your strategy.

Very interesting. I really haven't had people talk about it in that respect. So super helpful. Tell us a little bit about you mentioned being an investor versus a landlord. We talked about that a little bit offline, and I folks that do both. So tell us a little bit about that.

And I think that, you know, again, I I have learned and I've been both is there's a difference between a landlord and an investor. The landlord is basically by definition, someone who wants to basically do everything themselves, right, they want to be involved, they, for whatever reason, they have that love and there's nothing wrong with that they they like to be involved and have a say in who they accept as a tenant who they don't accept as a tenant, maybe skew numbers on paint, you know, they want to be involved in it. And again, I think that's fine. But the only challenge I have found is you are going to be limited by two things. You're going to be limited on time. And you're going to be limited on your knowledge. So you will hit a ceiling of how many hours in the day you have and what your knowledge level is. So if I wanted to go and learn to buy a syndication apartment complex, and I was doing it myself, I would only be able to get to the level of knowledge that I have if I did not bring anyone else into the mix. An investor is the Opposite an investor looks at it as a business. And they are the CEO of that business and the CEO of that business has team members doing things, and all those team members report back to them. So whether it's the mortgage broker, whether it's the accountant, the property management company, all these people are part of the team. And those people report back in the CEO takes that information in, and they make decisions based on that. What when you want a rental property, even if it's one property, it is a business, and there's laws, there's regulations, and there's a lot of things that go on as you and I know, when you're dealing with a resident living in that property. And I think that the challenge we have is, if people that want to be self landlord, that's fine, but I don't think they take the time to educate themselves in that realm of all the laws and regulations and everything that goes on. And also when they want to, maybe let's say they say they're not going to do it themselves. They're going to be a hire a management company. They don't take the time to properly vet management company and ask them the correct questions to make sure that they're the right people to have on their team. It's an afterthought because maybe they say, Well, I'm going to get a house. And if it doesn't work, then I'll hire a management company. Well, now they're thinking, this is coming out of my pocket, whatever their management fee is. So now I really don't want to take that much. I'm going to go maybe with the cheaper model. And, you know, we all know I've learned cheaper is not cheaper. And so what ends up happening is, is you're not satisfied with their service. They don't respond, they don't communicate. But my question back to them is, what did you have an expectation meeting in the beginning to actually sit down and say, these are my goals? This is what I expect of you. This is what you can expect to me. This is how I run my business is my policies. These are my procedures, this is my structure, does this align with yours? And if they don't have an answer, then maybe they're not the right partner for you. And so that's why I say these are the things that you do before you buy the property, not when you're at the, the stress point that you're ready to just explode because you can't deal with the tenants. everything going on or you're in a lawsuit or something like that. So I kind of lead into the other question that you had. But I think that the problem is, is it's normally an afterthought of how they're going to manage it. And, you know, you and I, we could look at a deal and say, Oh, that's going to be a 30% cash on cash return. Well, that has to happen every month, every year, for years and years and years to actually get that return. Just because it says it on paper, that's getting the deal. I know a lot of people that have gotten great deals and ran them right into the ground because they didn't know how to run the business. And so, you know, to me, running the business and getting the return on that asset your to your five year 10 year 30. That's kind of where the rubber meets the road not finding the deal because any bad purchase can be erased over time, in my opinion, like it's not too bad. But you know what I'm saying? Like it's I think that's the challenge. We all run into where we go that property management sucks. Well, did you actually take the time to really sit down and get them or did you just kind of go I don't have time I'm picking this one because they happen to call me back and I need to Today, and that's kind of what normally happens. That's my experience at least.

I think that is normal. And I think also you got like a realtor will recommend a property management company. And you've got, you know, someone who's a new investor, and they don't really have a network, and they don't really know who else to ask. And I have people ask me as a result of this show, they'll say, Hey, you know, do you have a property management company recommend? And it's just people I know, but I have not vetted them, because I am not using them. To your point. Yeah.

To me, it's there. It's, you know, it's on the investor, it's my responsibility to vet that company and make sure that they are in alignment with my business model. And if the person says, I don't have a business model, that's kind of a bigger problem. So I say, you know, if you don't have a business model, and you don't have a business plan, how do you expect your business to succeed? And then again, that's, you know, again, we are prone to hurry up and run and get it done without really thinking about How we're going to make this successful. That's why, you know, I've got those I get people questions all the time top questions you should ask a property management company. If a property management company doesn't know their numbers, and they can't answer questions, that's a red flag. That's like picking a bad 10. And go, I put them in anyways. And I can't believe they, they skipped and trashed my property. It's like, well, you saw they had evictions you saw they owed money. You saw this, you saw that? It's the same. It's the same with the management coming, but they don't think of it as the same. Right? And so I think that's, that's where we get into a disconnect. I think.

You're making me laugh. That's hilarious. Yes, the resident isn't going to suddenly change. So that's such a great point. And you do have to fully vet your residents as well and convey your wishes to the property management company.

Absolutely. And to the property management companies defense of the same. They may have been horrible before, but that's just how they operate. All of a sudden, you come in and you think that they're going to be this different person, because that's what you want, and they're gonna go, we've been this way for 20 years. We're not changing. And you guys suck. It's like Never said we didn't. It's just how we do things. So who's the one that should have done it differently? To me, it's the person that's doing the interviewing, and take the time to vet and select the right one.

I think it's a good segue to telling us a little bit about Mynd and what's happening and the disruption that they're doing in the marketplace.

Sure, yeah. So Mynd property management company is called m y nd so they are based out of Oakland, California. We are in 16 markets throughout the United States, lot on the west coast and obviously now through Texas and Phoenix Vegas, some other areas. What's interesting about Mynd is they are actually a a tech company basically, that believes that you can manage the asset through technology. To me it reminds me of the Ubers disruptors in all the markets and industries. Now the two co founders of the company they are investors, they used to own a company called waypoint homes that went up to 17,000 properties that they actually owned through real estate investment trusts and stuff like that. So they own property. So they're very familiar with being investor. So, for me, that's something that's important because you can have an investor conversation with them. And they want the clients and they see value in educating investors to become better. And so that's one of the reasons what I do is I am the investor facing vice president of investor education. So I go to this markets that we're in and I speak to investor groups, all about educating and being a better investor and to learn that there is a much better, easier way to do this through technology and using technology as a tool. Because, you know, to me, when you think of technology, we use apps for everything we use an app for our phone for almost everything we do, right? And why couldn't the same thing be done for your property in Atlanta, or in Florida or in Texas? It's the same Kind of leverage that we use for everything that we do. And so a lot of times in my philosophy, which aligns with Mynd is, when I talk to people, they say, oh, I've never owned a property out of my area, I wouldn't do it. I don't like it. And so my secondary question to them is, well do these properties in your area, have the right strategy to get you to your goal, because if they don't get you to your goal, then you may have you may be on the wrong freeway, those properties will not you know, one property in San Francisco may not get you to where you want to go, as opposed to five properties in let's say, Houston, Texas. And so what Mynd does is they give you the ability to invest in other areas, and they have a software they purchased a company recently called home union, and they have a software called invest, automate, and you're able to basically learn the other markets. It's kind of like an MLS for investors. It's actually a free tool. And if you want I'm happy to give you the link for your listeners, but it's a great from an investor's perspective. They have multiple Family single family on there. But it gives you numbers from an investor's perspective. You know, what is the forecasted projection for the next 30 years on this asset? What is the neighborhood historically in crime rate? Is it blue collar, white collar employees? What's the average income of neighborhood? So it's drawing a picture for me in North Carolina to go, Okay, I could buy something there. And I've got a management company that can do it. Oh, and guess what, I can do it all from an app. So it makes it a lot easier for me to understand that that's the way it's going. And my company, we had about 1000 properties when we merge with mine. And we see that the industry is changing the quote unquote, Mom and Pop property management companies are definitely going away. There's a definite move technology is coming in. It seems to be a lot slower in the property management industry than anywhere else. But it is definitely coming and it's just going to take a disrupter to come in and change that and I think mine will be the company to do it.

I love the concept you talked about where you can see other markets because I have a lot of listeners in the Bay Area, and they're not going to be able to buy properties there. And I had another guest on who lives in Kansas City. And he's buying, you know, very inexpensive properties all day long. And I'm sure the people listening in the Bay Area are completely, you know, trying to figure out how could they handle that they don't live in that location. So you got the intelligence, the AI the data, to be able to run the numbers, which is way better than just a spreadsheet, financial model, and trying to go get it yourself?

Yeah, I think more importantly, I think, to take a step back a little bit further is, what is the goal and do these properties get you there? Because that's the thing is, you know, I may talk to someone and they say, Oh my god, I can't believe this house in Houston, Texas is only $160,000. And it's gonna give me a $300 cash flow, and it's going to give me this return and that return. They say that that's a great deal. And I say Well, that really depends if it's a great deal or not on your goal. Because a great deal for me could be a strip mall in downtown Topeka that I buy based on my goal. And it could be a goal that puts you out of business because you don't have the capital or a house in San Francisco that you're going negative geared on, but it's going up in value. And so again, I always tell people, be very careful, don't go off to the flash of the low pricing, if it's not part of your strategy. And so people always ask me, is this a good deal? I don't know. Because I don't know what your plan is. I don't know what your goals are. Let's see if it aligns. Don't do it backwards. Don't make the property fit the goal. Do it the other way around, get the goal and then find out what area of the country matches your goal. And then start building your strategy and then you start building your team. And then you find the deal. So it's like you really got to do it backwards. We always do it the other way. And I've learned from experience that is not the way so I do a lot of speaking events in the Bay Area that's mines kind of you know for their headquarters and just I do a lot of we do a lot of mastermind events. And we also have a free Facebook group, mastermind real estate investment club. And it's really geared for investors, when I go speak at these events to just see what else is out there. And it's, it's not one city or the other, its first you got to understand the the psychology of what you're doing. And you mentioned you and your husband. When I talked to investors all the time, I'll ask them, who here has a business plan? First of all, who writes it down? And has it on paper of what their goals are and the strategy and more importantly, who actually sits down with their spouses and their children and make sure that everyone is aligned every year and has an alignment meeting? says, Okay, guys, this is where we're going. Is everybody on board? Does anybody have an issue? These properties are not giving us the return we wanted it to do. So what do we do? Do we change our parameters? Do we sell the property? The reason I bring this up my son, 14 years old, he's 16 now but at 14, he bought his first rental property, and he came to me and he wanted to buy one and So we kind of I educated him through the process. And what I realized, which was kind of an aha moment for me, I wish I could say I thought of it and designed it, but I didn't. With him wanting to buy property, I thought to myself, you know, we're a little selfish as entrepreneurs, because we taken all this knowledge and all this information, and we don't pass it down to our children as a legacy. We don't educate other people. So, yes, I could give my son my business and my houses and all of my assets. But that's not educating them, to educate them and create that legacy to carry on. Now we're doing more selfless acts for other people. And obviously, you know, your children. So I thought, how many people actually educate their children to buy real estate and do these things? And, you know, look, we're all busy being busy, I get it. I'm not, you know, not saying I'm not but it's just something to think about that. Are you bringing the whole family into this conversation of alignment, to make sure that everyone is on board with it and we don't and it costs us zero dollars, it costs a little bit of time. But How valuable is that to teach your children wealth? And that's I think that's a mistake that we all do as entrepreneurs that we don't do.

Yeah, it's a it's a great point. I'd like to switch back really quick, though, I have a question when you were talking about disruption, and you know, what Mynd is doing? And there's the data analytics side of it, but also, what are they doing? Anything technology related for the physical in person components that happen that are part of property management?

Yeah, sure. So they've got their own, you know, one of the things that they learned when when, when the co founder, created waypoint homes, they were their own client, but they realized the the challenge of scalability is in the software. That's that's the challenge. When you get up to 17,000 houses, something's going to break, right. And normally, it's the software capability. So what they did is they have designed their own property management software and That is what they're using. So they've got their own developers, we have our own developers that are constantly taking and retooling the software. And what Mynd is doing is, is they're basically taking a lot of the industry leaders, like our company and other companies that are leaders. And when they bring them into the fold, they're taking best practices. So they're very big to say, listen, we don't have all the answers. We want to see what you're doing, and how do we do this to scale. So a lot of the things that they do in the software, it could be regional, or it could be a national level, but they're taking best practices saying, well, you guys did that really good. That not so good. But let's take that and iterate it out to go to scale. So there's just a lot of functions that they're able to take and put into the software, whether it's even smart lock box, showings for the rental property, things like that of how to get your, your monthly statements there. So there's just little things that if you think about it, you know, in my opinion, when we were growing our company, my whole thing was if I I'm an owner, I really don't want to have to call the management company. As a matter of fact, I want to do everything I can not to call them. And on the management company side, we knew that when an owner called, it's never to give us good news or to say something nice to us, it's always something that was either messed up or perceived to be messed up. So how do you stop those inbound phone calls from upset clients? Right? Because if I had a property and I said, you know, I've had this property for 10 years, I've never heard from the management company, I get my notices every month, I get my rent every month. It's on time, best company in the world. The flip side is I said, Man, this company is calling me every single day. I've got this problem, I've got that problem. You're gonna go, Oh, my gosh, they're killing me right there just too much. It's too much inbound. And so we have to realize why do we get a property management company? And how do we stop the outbound of the owner inbound to the management company? And to me it's technology technology does that just like the taxi cabs and Uber, that's the disrupter. Anything that decreases friction. Between the user and the company is going to win. And that's what Mynd is constantly... It's that constant tweak, it's never going to be fixed, it's never going to be done. It's a constant creep, because as you scale Mynd has 10,000 properties now. They're constantly growing, there's going to be other challenges down the road that we don't even know about, that we're gonna have to overcome. But technology is the key. It's not it's not man hours, it's not manpower. To me, it's technology that's gonna win.

This is so exciting. And for those listening who have felt like their markets are overpriced. And again, back, I understand you do have to look at your goal. And, and there's certain areas that like, if you're talking Midwest, you're not going to have the appreciation that you do in some of the other like, there's a lot of components there. But if but you felt like Gosh, I would really like to, you know, get on this path. I have a plan, but I just can't even manage it. This is it's very exciting. And I think it's very cool that you can start to get that data without having to do a lot of that legwork yourself.

Yeah. And that's the thing, you know, the challenges you and I both know is if I were to say I want to invest in North Carolina, I'm going to call a bunch of some realtors, maybe just some investors, they're gonna say I got a realtor friend. Now I'm basing my investment decision on someone that I don't really know what they know about investing, they may not be having the same goals that I are the time, this and again, this software is free, there's no obligation if they reach out to me or to, they can get a free demo, just as it's again, it's so simple. And I can start running the numbers that I want. And I can start putting parameters in there and put some variables in this software to see what works, what doesn't work. And to me what's so important is that as I look at this, like I tell people I go, don't wait until you have the money to start looking at the software. It's like golfing, right? You've got to practice, practice practice to hit that swing perfectly. If all sudden I'm looking at North I use North Carolina. I'm looking at North Carolina and all the houses are 181 8181 82 And all of a sudden I see 110 I'm going to stop him a wait a second, is this a motivated seller What's going on? And we are doing this and I was doing a live webinar in my facebook group. We do webinars where we show the software and we show things. And all of a sudden, we realized it was an estate sale. So had I not been looking at the data, I would never have known that that was going to be that that was out of the norm of the pricing. Well, that's something I you know, I'm buying that now done deal, because I know it's a deal because I look at all the parameters in the neighborhood. And I see everything in there. And it makes sense. So I tell people go up and swing the golf club a couple times, go into software, look at it, use it, play with it, manipulate it, and then you know and again, you can do it in your ear. I mean there I think it's 16 to maybe 20 markets right now so and it's free so I don't know why you wouldn't use it to be honest.

You guys we will have all of that information in the show notes because I think everyone should check it out. He just like you said play around with it start to get a sense for it will have information on your face. The group and a couple of the other things that that you mentioned, Steve, how can listeners get in touch with you directly or learn more?

So if they want to know more about Mynd, they can go to our website so it's m y nd dot CEO so it's mine dot CEO. Also if they want to get a hold of me I am if you look anywhere on social media, you will find me I am on Facebook Instagram, Steve Rosenberg RZN BRG on Instagram, it's Rosenberg, Stephen, I believe. But again, if you google me, you will find me I'm very, very accessible. People reach out to me all the time. And if I can help them or redirect them or whatever, I'm, I'm a big proponent and paying it forward. You know, there was no one there to help me so if I can help other people to educate them, I'm always happy to do so so they can you know, again, they want to have a question they want to talk if they want to go to our Facebook group, it's the mastermynd real estate investment club and Mynd is spelled M Y N D so mastermynd real estate investment club and we also have a podcast show that we do as well, the myndful investor. And we have, we just finished a season, we had almost all the bigger pockets, people on board. I spoke at their conference, and we were a big sponsor, and I do a lot of stuff with bigger pockets. So we had them on. So we try to get thought leaders. And you know, my thing is, is I want to hear the downside. I want to hear when things went wrong. And how could you fix that when I don't want to hear how great you are. I want to hear what happened when it went off the rails and how did you get it back on because I like you. And I know that's that's the day in life of an investor. It's not all sunshine and roses, there's days. So again, if they want to reach out to me, I'm very, very happy to send them up with the investment software or any of those things will give you the links and they can kind of go from there.

Thank you so much. This has been super helpful was great to have you on.

My pleasure.

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ABOUT STEVE ROZENBERG

Steve Rozenberg has owned a 39-unit apartment building as well as over 40 SFH. He is a commercial Airline Pilot who turned investor after 9/11 threatened his "secure" livelihood.

After meeting his business partner Pete, they failed miserably as investors thanks to terrible tenants, worse neighborhoods and zero structure. It took them years, but with help they have figured out how to leverage each other's strengths successfully.

Steve is Currently on 2 Podcast shows. Landlord Survival, where he actively helps the regular landlord overcome day-to-day problems and Lion's Leadership Den where he and his co-host help the more seasoned investors find the leader within.

He has the opportunity to travel across the US and even to Australia and New Zealand sharing his passion to educate the "at home" Landlord on how to be successful in the business of Real Estate.

 
 
 
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