#72: Mindful Money

 
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Can one become a conscious being while accumulating wealth? Today’s guest - financial planner and Buddhist - Jonathan K. DeYoe, says yes! Growing wealth mindfully is even what everybody needs in this money-focused world. 

Jonathan is a California-based fee-only financial planner, the founder of DeYoe Wealth Management, an advocate of financial literacy, and the best selling author of Mindful Money, a one of a kind financial planning guide that teaches you how to save money, invest, pay off debt, fund your retirement, and pursue your dreams of financial bliss, in a mindful and conscious way.

Join us as he discusses how he developed his own philosophy of financial planning, how the practice of mindfulness and Buddhism can be applied to it, and why financial literacy is important for everyone to know. 

 

In this episode, we’re discussing…

  • [02:08] From Buddhist Studies to Wall Street, how Jonathan developed his financial philosophy

  • [05:22] What “goal-focused and planning driven” finance means

  • [07:31] Goal-focused financial planning starts with what is important to you

  • [11:47] Elements in the overall plan of Jonathan’s financial philosophy, wealth management, low-cost retirement plan services, and mindfulness in personal finance

  • [16:22] The anecdote of ‘upaya’ in relation to financial planning

  • [19:48] A glimpse of his book, “Mindful Money”

  • [20:16] Jonathan shares how the exercises in the book will help you develop a financial plan the mindful way

  • [23:17] Why money is a significant source of stress

  • [24:14] Why we all need financial literacy

  • [26:50] How to choose a fee-only financial planner

 

Jonathan’s Top Tips:

  • “The difference between what you’re doing and what other people are doing shouldn't determine your outcomes.”

  • “Planning based on mindfulness is your best tool to stick with.”

  • “When you start knowing what makes you happy, what makes you tick, what drives you to get up in the morning, what excites you, you start understanding what those are. And these tell you what you should be doing with your life.”

  • “You have to find the one that works and not switch from this one to that one. Do not be concerned about what's happening outside of what you know. Find your lane and stay in it.”

  • “If I trade off the things that aren't so important, if I can mindfully ignore the stuff that might look fun or those which may be very interesting, but doesn't add to my long term value and the meaning for my life, and I just focus on the stuff that matters to me, I'll be happier. I'll also have better financial outcomes because I'm focusing on those things that matter to me.”

  • “Not judging what is good or bad, that's mindfulness. Don't judge the thing as good or bad. Slow it down.”

  • “Let's force ourselves to look at the long term and then let's make the decision based on that long term.”

  • “If you have money, you feel guilty about it. If you don't have it, you think you should have it, and you don't like those people that do have it. It's just this is the line that we've drawn in our culture that we're going to battle over. Everything is financialized and no one has a clue!”

 

Nichole’s Top Tip:

  • “Nothing happens overnight. And it doesn't happen that way, no matter what vehicle you choose - if it’s real estate investing - you do not go out and buy your first 100-unit apartment complex without either someone who has experience or you working your way up to it. All of that takes time.” 

Resources: 

 

Resources About Jonathan:

Personal Website - Jonathan DeYoe | Company Website - Mindful Money | Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter | YouTube | Instagram


Categories: Financial Planning, Investment, Mindfulness


Tags: Mindful Money, Savings, Investment, retirement, finance, Buddhism, mindfulness, income, money, fee-only financial planner, financial literacy, money, financing, goal-oriented, financial philosophy, asset allocation, stocks, dividends, financial philosophy, wealth management, low-cost retirement plan services, mindfulness in personal finance.


 

+ Read the transcript

Mike Stohler
What if you could be doing something smarter with your money that creates income. Now, if you're wanting to get ahead financially, and enjoy greater freedom of choice, if you want a comfortable retirement, and you know you'll have more choices, if you can do more with your money. Now, if you've wondered who else is creating ways to make their money work for them, and you want actionable ideas, honest pros and cons, and welcome to the Richard geek podcast work here helping people find creative ways to build wealth and financial freedom. I'm Mike Stoller, and in this podcast, you'll hear from others already doing these things, and how you can

welcome back to the Richard geek podcast. This is Mike. And on episode 71, we shared how I'll be transitioning to hosting the podcast. Many times episodes are recorded several months in advance. So during this transition, sometimes you'll hear hybrid episodes. This is one of those and we hope you enjoyed today's episode.

Nichole Stohler
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the richer geek podcast. Today's guest reminds us that in order to reach your financial goals, you should create a plan. block out the noise and slow down. Jonathan do is the best selling author of mindful money, which is about simple practices for reaching your financial goals. And Jonathan is a California based fee only financial planner. And he's an advocate for financial literacy education, which he chats a little bit on the show and fiduciary responsibility in the advisory community. I read Jonathan's book and I found one of the most helpful pieces of advice to be specially right now. Turn off the news. Don't read the business section for a while. And don't watch the market. Let's jump into the show. Jonathan, welcome to the show.

Jonathan
Thanks, Nichole. Glad to be here.

Nichole Stohler
I'm really excited to get into this episode, we were chatting a little bit prior. And I was kind of giving you a little my experience. And I feel like a fee only financial planner or advisor is is really the way to go. And there's too many different options. There's too many different choices, it's kind of hard sometimes to manage on your own, but who do you trust, who's not going to just be selling you something that pays them a high commission. So tell us a little bit about your, your kind of philosophy, and then we'll dive into some of the details.

Jonathan
So I guess to really get into the philosophy, you kind of have to know some background, as you know, I started in this industry, on the wall street side, like I could fog a mirror, I got hired for sales, and I would cold call and sell people I would sling preferred stock, I'm in the Bay Area. So Pacific Gas and Electric preferred stock was the thing I would sell. And, you know, I've tried lots of different ways to invest. But this, this, this was after seven years of philosophy and religious studies. So the story goes like this. I was raised. And when I was nine years old, I bought my first stock. And so I've always had a really deep interest in the stock market and investing. And throughout college, I thought, you know, what I should do is I should I should take my student loans and, and, and buy real estate, right? So that that makes a good, you know, I could take out extra student loans, I can buy real estate. So I've always had this idea of investing. And because of that when my first wife said, okay, Jonathan's time for you to be done with your studies. So she could study, I had to find a job. And I dropped out of a degree program in Buddhist studies. And so it's Buddhist studies, and I didn't finish so there's no job. So I was like, What am I do? What How do I figure this out? So I went to Wall Street and they hired me as a salesperson. But I've had all this history of getting to know people in psychology that builds into how to serve people how people think. And I've been investing my whole life. And now by now I have 49 I've got 40 years of investing. I've tried everything. And what I've realized is simplicity is better. Low Cost is better. And and this is this is a really important thing and this is where the book comes from. It's not about your portfolio. It's about you. The ability, the ability to hold on when things aren't working is more important than picking the right things or timing the market and so when you have someone like Bogle or or Warren Buffett say you know by The index, just hold that don't think about it. That's actually a really good advice. But the problem is we all panic when markets go down 30% or 50%. Or not just panic, we also have this fear of missing out when the thing we own is up 20. But other stuff is up 40. So the idea is the difference between what I'm doing and what other people doing shouldn't determine your outcomes. So simple, low cost planning based, and mindfulness is your best tool to stick with it.

Nichole Stohler
That's so timely, for where what we are going through right now with the pandemic, but also, I am really guilty of that myself, right? I am really guilty of saying, you know, I'd rather move some of this to cash, I don't want to lose this right. And then I, I will say I missed out on some rallies that have happened. So being able to stay committed, and know that you've got a long term horizon, and simple as well. Now, you talked about planning, goal, focus and planning driven? What does that what does that look like? How do you help your clients figure that out?

Jonathan
So that the way things are right now is the vast and anytime there's a crisis, we become more this way, the vast majority people are market focused and performance driven. The The problem with this is nobody can predict or control performance, nobody knows the future relative performance of anything, much less, you know, Bitcoin versus stocks, or stocks versus real estate, or no one can tell the future, the best thing you can do is really think about what's important to you. And when you read my book, The first section is about all these illusions, and all this stuff that's, that's, you know, Wall Street speak, that actually doesn't matter. The middle section is about figuring out what's important, and academics, philosophers, religious people, and more today than ever before psychologists there, they know what matters. They know, health matters, learning matters, experiences matter, relationships matter, optimism matters, gratitude matters, generosity, they know the stuff that makes for a meaningful and happy life. So we have to start with that. And they have the they have the research. But then you've got to read the research or understand the research and really go inside, you have to reflect, you have to think about what's important to me. And so we talked about goal focused, that really starts with what do I want my life to look like? Because when you start knowing what makes you happy, what makes you tick, you know what, what drives you to get up in the morning, what excites you, we start understanding what those are, that tells you what I should be doing with my life. And if I know what I should be doing with my life, I know all the things I can trade away. If you don't do that, do that. The flip side of that is you go out into the world, you open up your Facebook page, and everyone is doing something cool. And you Oh, that's cool. Oh, that's cool. Oh, that's cool. I can do that. Oh, that'd be fun. I'd like to do that. And then suddenly, we want to consume more and do more. And none of this stuff is the stuff that's core to us. It's all it's all neat stuff. I'm not saying anything that does anything wrong here. It's just, if you don't know what's important to you, you'll just do anything that sort of makes you feel good right now. So goal focused is critically important to start with no, you know, what's important to you. If you're if you're in a relationship, you and your partner got to figure this out together? What what drives us, what makes us happy? How, how do we become closer together? And so once you know those goals, then it's a matter of this is the simple part, actually, it's the math, it's how do I line these things up for the lifetime of Cash Flows? You know, I'm you know, there's some very basic goals, everyone, regardless of the kind of job they have, eventually has to retire, when they retire, they need to have an income that rises to match the rising cost of living that retirement income is, you know, it's the last trade off we ever make. between here and there. I want to send my kids to school, I might want to start a business, I want to leave a legacy. I want to, you know, write a book. You know, there's all kinds of things I might want to do. Buy a house, buy a car, take, you know, take a massive sabbatical, six months off, travel the world, whatever those things are for you. You have to line them up in terms of what they cost, put numbers to them. And then you got to figure out, Okay, these are what these things cost, what do I have to save, to make each of those things come true? And then you got to look at your incomes and say, Okay, I don't have enough income to do all those things. Okay, so prioritize what's most important. Let's make sure I can do that thing. Oh, I have more income, I can do more things. Okay, what's the next most important thing? What's the next most important thing, the things we control are, to some extent, what we earn,

to some extent, how much we save. These are the things we have the most control over what we earn, how much we save, the thing we can't control at all. Is what markets do. And I watched a bunch of your episodes. And I love it the idea of, of all the different ways people can invest, and any any of those work, but you have to stick with one of them, you have to find the one that works and not that switch from this one to this one to this one to this one to this one, not be concerned about what's happening, happening outside of what you know what your life is, find your find your lane, and stay in it, save more, earn more, save more, invest more. And just and keep going the way the way I do, the way I invest is very, very simple. I'm not, you know, I'm not trying to outguess anything. You know, I'm very, very vanilla asset allocation, diversification, I believe in that I believe in that long term, I'm never going to change that. That's what I preach. That's what I teach. I also say there's no value in trying to guess that all the little different ways you can invest. Yeah, they might work, they might not, I can't predict that. I do know that if I earn more and save more. If I if I base those decisions upon where I want to end up along the way, all those milestones and that retirement income, and maybe that legacy at the end, I know that if I think about it, that way, I can make it happen. If I trade off the things that aren't so important. If I can ignore mindfully ignore the stuff that you know, might look fun, it might be very interesting, but doesn't add to my long term value and the meaning for my life. If I can trade that away, and just focus on the stuff that matters to me, I'll be happier. I'll also have better financial outcomes, because I'm focusing on focusing those my resources are the things that matter to me. So I better outcomes. Alas, I've never seen her life, I won't have to deal with all the crazy all the time. So it's not just about, you know, the magnitude of returns, it's about reaching the goals that I have. And I have a plan for that. That's goal focused, planning driven.

Nichole Stohler
I can definitely see your philosophy and religious studies background just be it kind of reminds me of just being at peace, right? And then saying, Okay, this is you know, nothing, nothing happens overnight. And it doesn't happen that way, no matter what vehicle you choose, if it's real estate investing, you do not go out and buy your first 100 unit apartment complex, without either someone who has experience or working your way up to it. So all of that takes time. Now, tell me a little bit about your overall practice. So as a as a fee only advisor you help people create these plans. But then what elements do you look at and pull into the overall plan.

Jonathan
So the practice of this, there's actually three things we do in our office. You know, for the first 27 years of my my life, I worked with successful families, right around what we call wealth management. And this is the deep, you know, face to face, financial planning, portfolio design, asset management, legacy work, you know, philanthropic work that we do with families. The second thing is, you know, for about a decade now, I've been working with companies to provide lower cost retirement plan services combined with ongoing education for their employees, so that we don't work with all companies, we just work with companies that really want to give that financial literacy and financial education training, a serious look for their for their employees, I think that we will all benefit from a more mindful approach to money. And so we're not doing that as a as a, when I'm making a lot of money, that that's just a way for me to reach out to more people to have a bigger impact. And then for the last couple years have been writing and speaking about the benefits of mindfulness specifically apply to personal finance. So in the practice, what goes into the in the practice in the wealth management practice when working with families, individuals, everything goes into it. So every financial decision that anyone ever makes you buy a card, you lease a car, should I buy this house? Should I go for a bigger house? Or should I retire in this area? Or should I move to another state? How do we manage taxes? How do we plan for the next five years taxes? So when we're doing planning, we get into the weeds on everything? The first thing we get into the weeds on though, and this is the thing that comes before planning is that is that values discussion. Again. It's really easy to like fill out a 10 question questionnaire, sort of a risk tolerance questionnaire, it'll give you it'll pop out, here's your asset allocation, and that's fine. But if if you're aimed at your asset allocation, you're not gonna end up happy, right? Figure out what's important to you first, we've got systems and processes for that, and then plan based on that. And then maybe that's okay, asset allocation that that that that a question thing spits out is right. But tomorrow, you're going to wake up and you're going to feel differently. So do you update your asset, your asset allocation every day based on how you feel? Now you don't. So you have to have a deeper understanding of how these things work so that you can hold on when things are go sideways, or Go negative or you spoke to two things, right one, sometimes we get really excited about stuff and we buy it at the wrong time. And the thing is sometimes we really despondent about stuff and we sell at the wrong time. And that's, that's because we were just reacting, reacting, reacting, reacting reacting to performance we're reacting to markets are reacting to reacting to what? Some pundit or or you know, economists are saying about what's going to happen next. They don't know, we don't know, we need to stop predicting. I mean, seriously stop predicting, no one can do it successfully. All the research says that. So there's a better way, right? Plan first stay diversified broad asset allocation, and rebalance on regular basis. Those are, it's so simple, it actually is really, really simple. But people don't do it that way. They get, you know, caught up in all the buzzers and whistles out there. And, and that's, you know, you have squirrel, you know, whatever the shiny object is, we chase it. And it hurts us long term. And it drives us crazy, because we we get further and further behind making decisions in a system that doesn't work. But we don't question the system. We question our decision making, which that's, you know, silly, it will drive us all crazy.

Nichole Stohler
Well, set great points. And, well, I mean, a yes. It's like you're speaking to me, it's so good. It really is. And you are speaking to me, but you know what I mean? Yeah, it's just I think anyone to approaching the values discussion and the goals, from the very beginning is just being heard, and developing the plan. And I have certainly done those online risk tolerance. I've also done the, how much do you have now when do you want to retire? Like all of those data that spits out but it doesn't ask those questions, and it's not taking into mind. You know, what's going to make you happy and what you're looking to accomplish?

Jonathan
It also, doesn't it? When you fill out a questionnaire it doesn't. There's this thing in Buddhism called rupiah. Okay, I'll just tell you a quick story. What upaya is a skillful means the story goes something like this, you know, the Buddhists stood on, sit in front of a vast audience, and he held up a flower. And as he held up that flower, one of the audience was suddenly enlightened. Because the Buddha the Buddha knows, like he could see in that moment that he held up a flower similar to be enlightened to the goal is to have people help you become enlightened, that's skillful means knowing what the message is, that will help the person that's receiving the message as skillful means. And that's important, because when you fill out these questionnaires, they don't know how you're going to emotionally respond to anything. And this the game of investing is not one of intellect. It's one of what is your EQ? What's your emotional quotient? How do you slow down the movie? So that you make better decisions? How do you you experience the world as it is? And then not just go oh, my God, or Yay, and jump at it? Right? What not judging is good or bad, that's mindfulness, don't judge the thing as good or bad. Slow it down. Let's look and see what's the right decision here. And then for us, we say, well, let's ask the plan what the right decision is, let's, let's force ourselves to look at the long term. And then let's make the decision based on that long term. If my plan says, I have to save $1,000 a month, and markets are off 30%. I'm nervous, I don't want to put my thousand dollars a month in this month, because markets are down. I don't know if they're gonna recover. Well, my plan says, and my plan is based on all the history, it's based on a stress test. It's based on, you know, times when the market actually did go down and recovered. It's time when markets based on times and markets skyrocketed and then fell. That's all built in to the plan. So the plan says, invest $1,000, I see the long term, I'm just going to invest my thousand dollars. And one of the conversations I had, and this is this is not, you know, COVID, this is the 2008, the great recession. I had a client who told me to write my book, and I started writing it in 2009. And I started running it because she said, You know this, you've got to tell the story. And she's going to make an investment in 2009. And she made the same investment every year into into like a SEP IRA should be the same investment every year for 10 years. And that year, she was like, I don't, I don't think I could do it. Like markets are down. The world looks like it's going to end the current view of the economic environment. I can't see this ever recovering. All the pundits are saying at this time is different. You know, I don't think I can put it away. Then I said, and I said, I don't know how it turns. I just know that it turns. That's all I need to know. I don't know when I don't know how. I just know that it turns. And it was this whole conversation that led up to that that little piece that she was like, Okay, I can put this to work. By the way, Jonathan, you have to go read a book now. And that's what That's where the book came from is this whole idea of, of how do you not respond? And it's starts with that non judgmental awareness of what's going on. It's not good or bad. Markets are volatile. That's what markets are. You know, whenever no one ever says when market goes up, up up, oh, I don't like this volatility, they don't do that. Right? When it goes down, that's when they say they don't like the volatility. It's so funny.

Nichole Stohler
Let's talk about the book really, really quick to dive into that. So your book is called mindful money. And it is about simple practices. So some of the things that we've talked about for reaching your financial goals and increasing your happiness dividend. You talked a little bit about the book is, you know, trying to keep your mindset on the right, you know, the right thing. Does the book also help people create their own goals and objectives plan? Or how does that piece of work?

Jonathan
So the the third section of the book is all about, you know, your financial, the actual numbers in a financial plan? How do you how do you know? How do you pay off debt? You know, how much do you say what are you saving for? How do you get to retirement, all this kind of stuff, that's all in the third section. If you start with chapter one, there's an exercise at the end of every chapter. And if you do the exercises, you understand your values, you understand your money script, you understand your stories, you start to understand your your cash flow, you start to understand your your net worth, you get to understand the basics of your finances, you start thinking about your goals. And by the end of the book, you actually have a simple do yourself financial planning. And so I have so often said, You know, I appreciate what someone says, Thanks, I love your book. And I and I say, what did you do the exercises? and 90% of people say, No, no, I didn't, I didn't do the exercise. And I'm like, well, then you didn't read the book. But the point is to get people to plan. You know, I asked people all the time. Have you thought about a lifetime of cash? Have you considered and thought about all the trade offs you need to make to get where you want to go? and 90% of people say, No, I haven't thought about that. Have you thought about what's really, really important to you that looking backwards from your 90th birthday. These are the things you will have had to have done in order to feel like you've lived with a great life. And you know, based on your own values and your beliefs and your hopes and dreams, looking backwards from your 90th birthday, what will have had to happen for you to be happy with your life. And we thought about that. Now have thought about that. So I, you know, I see a lot of anxiety and a lot of angst and a lot of despair in the media, you know, we're entering this political cycle, and I just know, we're gonna rip each other apart in this process. And I keep going, why not just spend a little time get to know what's important to you. And guess what, almost always, it's not selfish. Right? You got to I mean, you have to have enough. But once you know what's important to you, suddenly, you see places where you can help other people. And if you start with that, and the world just gets to be a better place. We don't have to social media, oh, my God, don't get me started, I have the phone is just I gotta have a 15 year old and a 12 year old, I'm just, I'm just pulling my hair out in this whole conversation because they, they see all their friends and what they're doing and it's drives us, it pulls us in the wrong directions. And it will always pull us in the wrong directions if we don't have something to pull us in the right direction. So baseline your values, build your life on that, you know, do the math on the planning and the and figure out where the money should go. That's mean, that's the best way I know of to both financial success and a happy life.

Nichole Stohler
You mentioned a few things there as we're coming into the political cycle and beating beating each other up. And the other thing is just trying to not be pulled, you know, while being on social media and seeing all the cool things that people are doing, whether it's a material thing, or in its investment or something like that. Why do you think that money is such a significant source of stress? Whether you have it or not like Why?

Jonathan
Well, we don't there's two really big reasons, right? One, we don't, it's totally taboo as a topic. We're not allowed to talk about it with each other. And that because of that, the shame around I don't have enough or I'm not good enough. But we judge ourselves based on that. It's, you know, it's very taboo subject. Second thing is there's no education on this stuff. And so, most people even really, really, really wealthy people don't. And they won't admit this, right. I made a lot of money. I wrote a book, I sold lots of books, you know, there's people in my in my community that are that are really incredible authors that have sold tons and tons and tons and tons of books. And so they are really well to do, but they don't know about money. Right? They haven't, because they were successful at something, but they don't know how to manage it. And there isn't unless you seek out a class or you've done your economics degree or you know, you've studied personal finance there. We don't train people for this, it blows my mind that we expect that when you're 2122 years old, you're going to graduate from college, and you're going to start a job somewhere. And they're going to hand you a package of honor, if you've ever done this, you get your packet of your onboarding packet at you at your new job. And it's got insurances and 401, K's and, and just old piles of legal work and contracts and this other stuff, and you get this whole pile of stuff. And you're expected to fill this out and turn it back into somebody, how much should I contribute? You know, how should I invest my 401k. And you've never run into anything like this before. You maybe at one point in your life, I had a quarter of a semester on? What was that? What was the class and like ninth grade, we learn how to sew a pillow and balance your checkbook and maybe cook something that was that may be the extent balancing your checkbook, your financial literacy. So you know, we're anxious, we have money, we don't know how to manage it, we don't have money, we think we should have more money, we don't know how to make more money. And everything in our world, social media, the news seems to be about money, like inequality. If you have it, you don't have it. If you have it, you feel guilty about it, if you don't have you think you should have it, and you don't like those people that do have it. It's just this is the line that we've drawn in our culture that we're going to battle over. And everything is financialized. And no one has a clue. And that's, it's incredibly sad. It isn't complex, but then you layer on, everyone's selling something. Like you open the you open up Forbes magazine, or any publication or a newsletter from somebody that's an informational services world. It's just sales, it's all sales, it's always selling, whether it's Vanguard selling low costs, or whether it's Goldman Sachs selling, you know, some amazing private equity deal or, or if they're all sales. And and so what is it? You don't have any education? Everyone talks about it? I don't know anything about it, what am I supposed to do? I'm going to be anxious, there's no, I don't have another choice. So you got to you got to kind of find someone you trust. And I think this is where you started is you find somebody that's a fiduciary, you find someone that does is just fee only. And, and if you're not going to do it yourself, people can do it themselves. But you're not going to do that you're gonna hire somebody, you want to hire someone that has those two, those two, you know, those two categories, fiduciary fee only really, really important.

Nichole Stohler
I absolutely agree with that. Is there anything else that you would say you should look for? And I and I say this because I could reach out to my network and say, who do you use as a fee? Only financial planner? And that's how I would find someone? Do you like them? Have they done well for you? Like, what are the things that maybe people should explore a little bit there?

Jonathan
I would say, Do you trust them? And I would I would Delve on that. Do you trust them? If and let's throw out a scenario. If in a couple, you know, one party usually deals with finances, and everyone includes everyone, but but usually there's one part one partner that actually deals with it. So you ask that partner and say, if if you perished? Would you trust that your financial advisor would take care of your partner? Or not lead them astray? Do you trust them that much? Would you trust that if something happened to you and your kids were taking over? Would you trust that this financial advisor would would would manage that process for the benefit of the kids? That's really, you know, they have to be competent? They have to, you know, be honest. But do you trust them in those deep emotional issues. And I think that's probably their fiduciary their feelingly you trust them. Then on top of that, I would ask questions, like, you know, do they educate? Do they provide services outside of and then you'd line up the services? I do? Do I want just planning going without planning to be hourly? Do I want someone actually manage my portfolios for me? Do I want someone to be more active or more passive or somebody be responsive to all of my calls, and then you just have to line up the service with the person. But if you honestly if you find, if you find someone, that's a fiduciary, that's feelingly, that is trustworthy. I think you're probably done. At that point. All the other stuff is gravy, if it lines up. But if you trust them, then you're going to whatever their fee is that I think they're worth it, whatever their whatever, they're if they're trustworthy, that's really really and they're fiduciaries which means they have to look out for your best interest and their family, which means they're not taking commissions from, you know, some of the products or from insurance or for some some investment product they're going to work with and it's their job to find the lowest cost stuff for you. It's their job to put your plan first and your goals first and it's their job to take care of you and yours. If you trust them on top of that, I think that's pretty much everything, there's not going to be a big difference between in costs, maybe, maybe a percent, maybe $5 an hour, at the end of the year is going to be roughly the same amount of money. When you think about it. They're all pretty, pretty lineup, it's an efficient world, for really good advice, you're going to, you're going to pay for that. You want somebody that, you know, will answer an email, you know, 10 minutes on one Tuesday a year, that's going to be cheap. It's also not going to be very effective.

Nichole Stohler
Yeah, great points. Okay. Thank you for taking us through that. I am very, very interested to check out your book because I think I like how you describe, I would do the exercises, which means it can't be any book. So I'd have to actually or I guess I could write it down separately. But in any case, tell us how listeners can get in touch with you or learn more.

Jonathan
So the best thing to do is to go to our website, it's you know, https for you know colon forward slash forward slash mighty mindful dot money. It's not mindful money calm, it's mindful dot money. You can find the book at local bookstore you can find find us on social media. But if you go to mindful dot money, and yes, sign up for our weekly commentary, then we'll you'll let us we'll let you know when we have courses we'll let you know we do live events, we'll let you know when we do. We do a lot of new a lot of live free training. I've got a I've got a savings, savings and expense class, I think this Thursday. That's we just do that in our community. And if people want to sign up for that, we invite folks to come in and learn about personal finance.

Nichole Stohler
That is fantastic. Jonathan, thank you so much for joining us today.

Jonathan
Thanks. This has been great.

Mike Stohler
Thanks for tuning in to the richer geek Podcast, where we're helping others find creative ways to build wealth, and financial freedom. For today's show notes, including all the links and resources from our show, and more information about our guests, visit us at www. V Richard geek.com slash podcast. And don't forget to jump over to Apple podcasts, Google Play Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts and hit the subscribe button. share it with others who could benefit from listening and leave a rating and review the podcast in front of your eyes. I appreciate it. Thanks for listening.

The information, statements, comments, views, and opinions (collectively, “Information”) provided in this podcast are not intended to be and should not be construed as financial, economic, legal, accounting, tax or other advice.  For our full disclosure, click here.

 
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ABOUT JONATHAN DEYOE

Jonathan DeYoe is the best-selling author of Mindful Money: Simple Practices for reaching your Financial Goals and increasing your Happiness Dividend. 

He writes and speaks about the intersection between love and money. He has been investing for 40 years and been a financial advisor for 25. He started his firm in 2001 and he is a big believer in financial literacy training and a big advocate for the fiduciary standard.

Jonathan is the author of Mindful Money: Simple Practices for Reaching Your Financial Goals and Increasing Your Happiness Dividend. He has led the wealth management firm Mindful Money (formerly DeYoe Wealth Management) since 2001. 

Jonathan is an advocate for financial literacy education and for fiduciary responsibility in the advisory community. He believes everyone can benefit from good financial advice, but accepts people find themselves in many different situations. Not everyone needs or wants a relationship with a personal financial advisor. Many people would benefit enormously from a course in basic financial literacy.

 
 
 
Passive InvestmentsNichole Stohlerpodcast, season 1