#145: The Right Tools and Resources To Be Successful: Opportunity Zone Mentoring
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Welcome back to another episode of the Richer Geek podcast, today we have David Sillaman. He’s nationally recognized speaker and expert on opportunity zone funds. He is currently responsible for developing over $15 billion opportunity zone funds (Over 70 of them), helping GP/Sponsors raise $750 million and is recognized as a top 25 fund manager and top 10 opportunities zone fund expert in the country. He's a recognized expert on the Forbes real estate Council and consults with multiple government agencies on opportunity zone fund business advocacy across the country.
In this episode, we’re discussing…
[1:40] What is an opportunity zone?
[3:21] How did the idea of opportunity zones come about?
[7:20] Tax free growth
[9:33] Investing in an opportunity zone fund
[14:55] What is a written use of proceeds plan?
[16:45] Prior of the opportunity zone
[21:32] Federal and state support for opportunities
[23:28] How to juice your capital gains
[27:57] Understanding a good exit strategy
Resources from David
+ Read the transcript
Mike Stohler
What if you could be doing something smarter with your money that creates income. Now, if you're wanting to get ahead financially, and enjoy greater freedom of choice, if you want a comfortable retirement, and you know you'll have more choices, if you can do more with your money. Now, if you've wondered who else is creating ways to make their money work for them, and you want actionable ideas, with honest pros and cons, and no fluff. Welcome to the Richard geek podcast, where you here helping people find creative ways to build wealth and financial freedom. I'm Mike Stohler. And in this podcast, you'll hear from others who are already doing these things, and learn how you can tune everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the richer geek podcast today we have David Silverman. He's a nationally recognized speaker, expert on opportunity zone funds. We have lot to talk about as far as what those funds are, what the opportunity zone area encompasses. He's currently responsible for developing over 15 billion with a be in opportunity zone funds. That's over 70 different funds. He's helped GPS and sponsors raise over 750 million, and is recognized as a top 25, fund manager and top 10 opportunity zone fund expert in the country. I think he's an expert, and he'll be able to tell us a little bit about opportunity zones. How're you doing, David?
David Sillaman
I'm doing excellent. Mike, how are you doing today, buddy?
Mike Stohler
Doing great. So, you know, let's dive in. What is an opportunity zone?
David Sillaman
Ah, so basically, this is where a lot of people you hear like, oh, I started a zone or I have a zone or I this or I that and they typically eyes something in a zone. And the reality of it is all an opportunity zone is is a preset geographic area that has been predefined by Treasury by IRS and designated as an opportunity zone. So really, it starts off geographic, the rest of it is all about a basically a tax program that was added to the tax cut and Jobs Act in 2017. And it's a way to defer taxation, and then also to be able to create tax free growth over a period of time. And the idea is effectively utilizing tax incentives to privatize Community Economic Development and revitalization with a focus on real estate, businesses, workforce development and creating safer neighborhoods. That's what what the program is. And that's what an opportunity zone is. It's just a geographic area.
Mike Stohler
So it's a geographic area that is like down on the dumps or it's not, it's kind of like a C class area?
David Sillaman Well, it depends. You can say that the vast majority of them would be C class areas, there are some opportunity zone areas, you know, political, that are definitely questionable B maybe even a class in some areas. So but it basically, it was taken off of 2010 census data, and looked at that and said, Okay, you know, who's been living below median poverty levels, things like that. And then that's what was then, you know, started the deliberation of what are now opportunity zones, and the federal government and Treasury came up with this idea, this program, get tossed it over to the states. So each state governor, and then locally, were defined. So basically, state was saying, Hey, this is what the data says, get back to us, let us know if it still holds true based, you know, on everything. And so it kind of went top down and then bottom back up. So it was like riding an elevator a little bit, in the sense that, you know, it started then to be looked at locally, and then changes were made. And then those changes were then given back to the governor and then the governor back to Treasury. So it kind of started came down and then went back up up to the top, and then that's what was approved. But basically 25% of all eligible areas that could be opportunity zones are opportunity zones. So there's still a lot of areas that are not that could be eligible. But each state has opportunity zones. There's 8700 of them across the United States, Guam, US Virgin Islands, and basically the entire island of Puerto Rico.
Mike Stohler
Do you think they'll kind of redo the map after the 2020? They just got to keep with the 2020 thing.
David Sillaman
So it's a great that's a great point because in 2020 they did redo the census data. The IRS came out and said at that point in time that they were not going to reevaluate the opportunity zones themselves. However, since that timeframe, we do have the opportunity's own Extension Act that has been submitted to Congress. And that would not only re identify those areas, potentially expand those areas, and then also give the states the ability to sunset and reassign new zones. So and then there was another bill that was also submitted to extend the opportunity zones by another 980 zones as well. So there's been a couple that at the end of the day, they'll probably end up getting all merged into one after goes through markups, and everything else like that. But it's a program that's got strong bipartisan support. And I do think it's going to grow and it only makes logical sense. Sure,
Mike Stohler
yeah. I mean, there's, you know, a lot of people, people in need a lot of areas of need. Now, if I remember, right, one of the requirements, you know, I can't just go in and start a business in an opportunity zone. Don't I have to sit there some growth or some?
David Sillaman
There's, there's a process to it. And basically, the easiest way to understand the process is let's just break it into three lanes. You've got individually, you've got the investment vehicle being a fund, and then you've got the underlying asset being what's called a qualified opportunity's own business, right? Something that the Fund invests into for either stock, or partnership or membership positions. All right, so basically investing into a company as an investor with capital gains. And the easiest way is let's just say I sold Bitcoin for profit, I'm in crypto, and I sold Bitcoin, let's add a million dollar capital gain event. And so normally, I pay capital gains tax on that. And depending on whether how long I held the crypto forks are there gonna be short term long term gains, but Uncle Sam is going to get their slice of the pie. And depending on what state I live in, more than likely the state's going to get their piece of the pie as well. So and that's usually going to come out to be white, close to third, maybe a little bit more. Right? So what this does is it says, okay, hey, Dave, might set up an opportunity zone fund. So that's the vehicle that reports to the IRS that's going to find something eligible to invest into in and opportunities on whether it's real estate or whether it's business. And so I like I like whatever the project is, you found whatever you're doing good numbers, good potential returns tax free. And so I take my capital gains, and I invest into your opportunity zone fund. And what that does is the year that I do that, I get two major benefits. Number one, I get to defer taxes on that million dollars. Okay, I get to kick that can down the road, right now, to tax year 2026. Now, the opportunity's own Extension Act that I mentioned earlier, would kick that can further down the road. But that just hasn't been passed yet. But once that does, that 2026 deadline is going to get extended out. But so I'm deferring paying the tax. The second big thing, though, is not so much deferring paying the taxes, as it is the tax free growth. So let's say I put a million into your fun, the only rule is, is that I can't exit my position in 10 years, if I exit, I gotta pay taxes, maybe penalties, blah, blah, blah, depending on one, I exited, etc. But as long as I just, I like it, I don't exit and I keep my position for 10 years, then I get a step up to basis to fair market value at exit. So let's say I put a million in. And let's say that whatever it was that you were doing had a 10x return on my money. So grew from one to 10, I pay no capital gains tax, I walk away tax free at the federal level, and 46 out of 50 states mirror the federal level, which means that I walk away tax free at the state level. Also, the other thing about the program as we think 10 years, well, it sounds like it's a long time. But when you think about the only other alternative, which is 1031 exchanging, when you think real estate, that program is not even designed for you for your lifetime, that's more designed for your heirs. Right. So this gives you a short window to get a full step up and bases. But more importantly than that the program doesn't expire till 2047. So I could look I could be in my 40s The way that I am and have again, same scenario, a capital gain event from from crypto, invest into your fund. And now I don't exit until 2047. I'm at retirement and I got all that tax free growth. So it's a unique type of vehicle for what it does. And the stipulation is for me, as an investor who has capital gains, I got to go into a fund first just finding something that's you know, a development or a business that I like in an opportunity zone and just directly investing. I don't get advantage of the program because the flood does the reporting.
Mike Stohler
Okay, so it has to you, you can't go into my syndication.
David Sillaman
I can't do that. equity into the deal, the syndication would have to spin off and O Z fund, that would also be an investor in the deal. And then I would be investing in the offshoot. So I get because that's what's reporting for the capital gain benefit. And then that invest then into whatever the, you know, the syndicated deal is
Mike Stohler
and are there third party companies that I mean, there's opportunities everywhere that's like, you know, kind of like the self directed IRA, you need the third party, or their let's say I do a syndication into a hotel, it's in an opportunity zone, you have capital gains, well, I'm not going to start up a fund or an offshoot or there's third party companies that can facilitate that.
David Sillaman
There are for sure, we do that all the time. We've also got a DIY builder, that someone can kind of do it themselves. But basically, when when you think the opportunity's own fund, which again, is that reporting vehicle, they really fall into two buckets really kind of open and closed. So going back to that same example, where I was an investor, I sold Bitcoin, yada, yada, yada. Let's say that my CPA said, Hey, Dave, you know, go find a fun, and I can't find one. But I can set my own up. Now mine is not going to be fun, that's raising money, the way that like a reg C or D offering would be alright. So this is just basically a company that gets set up and the operating agreement gets adjusted. I put money into the company company reports itself as an opportunity zone fund. Now that fund could then come to your project, if it's in an opportunity zone, if you were accepting new money in for equity, gotta be for equity, and could come in and act as a as an investor, but it would be recognized as the company, not Dave Sullivan.
Mike Stohler
Okay. Yeah, I want to make sure because when you said fund, I'm thinking, man, it cost me like $20,000 to set up a fund.
David Sillaman
And it does when you think setting up an open opportunity zone fund that's going to raise money. Yeah,
Mike Stohler
yeah. Now, can you do a 1031 into a fund and have the same as the one thing that I have issues with like in a non appraiser, let's say someone had a 1031 wanted to invest in a hotel? They have to be like on the GP side. And I don't want them to be so. So what you're saying is that so you can have a 1031. And you can still be an LP if you do an opportunity zone fund. Yep.
David Sillaman
And I'm also not limited to like kind. Anyone, I could sell a business, because it used to be that I could 1031 business are right now is a big investment category. I used to be able to 1031 Exchange art, I can't do any of that anymore, because the opportunity's own program replaced it. And the reality of it is, is at the end of the day, I think the opportunity's own program is ultimately going to replace the 1031 exchange program itself, as well, because it's, it's able to more directly focused investment dollars into areas of need, while still getting the benefit in your lifetime. One, you can have a partial or failed exchange, a lot of times you'll see with real estate where somebody especially right now, where we were, the market is just, you know, increasing rates, falling equity value, and coming out of one where I got lucky and I just sold in time and trying to find something else, I might not even be able to come close to finding something in that 45 day window. So what happens I have a failed 1031 exchange this programs the second bite into tax Apple, I can take just the capital gain, I don't need to have an intermediary. And I don't need to invest the principal. So I can actually extract out my bases roll, just the gain. And I can roll it into my own fund that I set up as just you know, close type friends family type thing, and then use that fun then to find something to invest into. And the nice thing is I have time I've two sets of time to do this. I have 180 day window from the date I realized the capital gain unless it's I get a k one from the sale of real estate then I get like an extended period of time. But I have 180 days to roll the money into the fund. And then the fund then has its own window of 180 days to then be to identify and then begin to deploy money into something in an opportunity zone. And if it needs a longer period of time then the fund can build what's called the safe harbor plan, which is just a written fancy way of saying use of proceeds. Alright. So a written Use of Proceeds plan and it can automatic They get an extended period of time up to an additional 31 months to make an investment and for businesses up to an additional 31 months on top of the 31 months, so it's eligible for up to a 62 month extension airy window on top of the 180 days. If it's up, I'm investing in a business.
Mike Stohler
Wow. Okay. See, it's just so much more than I thought was possible. That's it's amazing. Now, talking about funds in your funds. Let's talk about what you're doing with your opportunity's own fund. And it's what Easy, easy, oz right are easy. Oh,
David Sillaman
God, easy, easy, Gozi. And
Mike Stohler
everybody, it's easy, Ozy ehzyoz.com, if you want to check it out.
David Sillaman
So we don't actually have our own fund, we have not set one up simply because of conflict of interest, because we set funds up for other clients. And so we don't try to you know, we're not a licensed SEC broker dealer. So, you know, we're very cautious on a line that we walk, when it comes to investors and placing money and stuff. But to build like the process that you went through, when you think back to how you said your fund costs you 20 grand, that was probably 20 grand just for your private placement. Probably not even everything else, that by the time you looked at what it really truly costs to get set up. And then also look at the time, the timeframe that it took. On top of that, I'm gonna guess probably like everybody else, probably somewhere between six to 18 months all together to kind of zigzag your way through how do I set one of these things up? Right. That's was my experience prior to the opportunity Zone program, I was in a hotel deal, and came into it to help do just that put together a syndicated offering for it. And it just so happened to be right at the very, very beginning of the opportunity Zone program he looked at it was like, Oh, my gosh, this is in a zone, made a pivot and you know, ended up being the second fund in the country to ever go live. And I looked at that, and I was like, you know, there's a process. And so what I sought out to do is I built a company once before, that if you remember joining the 2008 debacle, the mortgage meltdown crisis, there was the governor a couple of government programs, HAMP and harp. Yep, they were under the Obama programs. And they basically was a loan modification program. And it was different than what we've got today. It was very much kind of a wild wild west when that program first came out. Well, I built a loan modification company called the cornerstone group, second largest loan modification company in the country.
Mike Stohler
Yeah, I was gonna say, I know, I know why you do. I know cornerstone. Because we were the big,
David Sillaman
it was a big, big company at 175 people to call centers. Well, change of a pen at the congressional level. And effectively I was in business one day and out of business, the next. And, you know, Congress passed changes to legislation based on stuff that was happening out in California, and I was in Virginia, like call centers, everybody's in Virginia on my side, but because of bad apples and that proverbial saying that, you know, a few bad apples were rocked the entire basket, completely held true with that government program. Fast forward to this government program, looked at it a little differently. And I said, somebody's got to be at learned a lesson, right? Had no, there was no voice for it. So for me, this was a brand new ecosystem that was going to develop into a financial eco market space, you know, you give something all the way to 2047. And you throw real estate in business and you make it private equity, a lot of money is going to flow into it with time, it's gonna be a trillion dollar ecosystem. So my I looked at it very differently, while everybody was focusing on Hey, this is my tree, meaning Hey, that here's my find my offering my deal. I was like, how do we support building connectivity relationships, you know, we call them bridges, like market spaces, directory listings, you know, education, all these different points that people would mean to be supportive and to grow and be healthy in the EEG and that's what we've done. So we've, as a company, we started with turnkey fund developed, we still do that, where you come to us and from zero to 30 days, we can set up an opportunity zone fund all in not just documentation, but financials, banking administration, Brandon branding, web design, deal rooms, pitch decks, pitch videos, press releases, all of it CRM systems, automation, your pipeline, whole thing done in 30 days, which is basically unheard of. But yeah, all we've done is gone out and we brought everybody that you've went out and you've done in the past that hire the securities attorneys, the corporate attorneys, the tax attorneys, the web that video, the technology He people that SEO people, we just hired them all. And said, this is a systematic approach, each one is going to basically be, you know, the same concrete. Everything else is just about the painting and the fixtures and, and the furniture, meaning What's your project? Who's your team? What's your numbers, but the foundation of what is a fund is what we sought out to kind of make into a turnkey thing. And so we do that. And then that led to also creating a DIY program. Then shortly into that we realized there was no real directory listing. So we set up OC funds.com, which is the largest directory listing of opportunity's own funds. And then within a little bit of a period of time, we realized that, you know, you got professionals that, when you line up 100, CPAs, you might have five, that really know this program, in any way, shape, or form, you'll have 85 that have heard of it, surface level, and you'll have like 10, that have never heard of it at all, don't know really anything about it. So there's there's a massive, massive gap in professional education, not just with CPAs. But with tax attorneys, with real estate agents with business brokers, the list goes on and on registered investment advisors in the crypto community, and the technology and startup community, VC community, all of that. There's this education gap on Alright, I've heard this program is mainly for real estate, and it's complicated. And it's bad areas, and it doesn't apply to me. And
Mike Stohler
those me, I'm like, I don't want to own a hotel. You know? Because I think of it as that area town that there's usually one thing they're doing in hotels are two things. I would say
David Sillaman
you got to look at, you got to look at it differently. Okay. Yeah. You know, you look at it today, tomorrow and next year type mentality. If we look at it today, and you're getting into a really good deal, like on a hotel, there is so much number one federal support, like this was something that's never talked about about this program. It's not a tax program. This is the first time that a program has been done in the history of our country, where there's 21 different federal agencies that are involved 21. And it's not just involved in creating but I'm talking involved in supporting like just this past year, like within the last six months, FHA announced a new increase in rehab loans for multifamily in opportunity zones from 35,000 to 75,000. There's loan programs, there's contract programs, there's grant programs, there's insurance programs, 23 different agencies over 300 plus different programs, that's just at the federal level. Then you look at the state level, I'll use Ohio, Ohio as an example, in their press release for this year's fiscal budget. They've got $200 million allocated to support opportunities on initiatives. Then we drill down local, I'll use Baltimore, Baltimore, in their press announcements got 50 million to support local opportunities and initiatives. Then you look at TIF you look at municipality support, sales, tax rebates, property tax rebates, sales and property tax deferments, expedited zoning, in some cases, literally, the municipality owns the property and will gift it to to the GP just to get it done. So I mean, you've got different scenarios where you can really juice a return in a big way. And then to make it tax free, because your cap stack doesn't have to be just a, you know, a little bit of your skin in the game, and then a big bank debt, you can get to all this other type of stuff. The other thing is the opportunity Zone Program is a tax stackable program. So low income housing tax credits, historic tax credits, new new market income tax credits, solar, all the ones that are out because of the omnibus spending bill that just got passed for business and energy and infrastructure. All of that is overlaid. So you get all that to juice, the, you know, the underlying project, which means that if I'm an investor in that underlying project, getting all that juice, I'm getting a better juice out of my squeezed as an investor. mindshare is tax free because I put capital gains into a fund
Mike Stohler
and through easy Z. You're walking the new GP through all that because I don't know where the tax credits and what they are. And that's just something that you you're helping everyone so it's like, oh my god, there's just David's talking about so much.
David Sillaman
And we don't there's a an education program. If you can see the screen behind me It says COC is a certified opportunity's own advisor. And you can find it in our menu right at easy Ozy or go to OC advisor.com. But it's an entire online training program. We've partnered with the America First policy institute center for opportunity and Liberty University put together Our training program and it'll walk someone through a to z to go from I've never heard of it to being an expert advisor in all right online?
Mike Stohler
Well, well, you've changed my mind, I'm gonna start looking, you know, because what I was thinking as you're talking is, you never know, in 10 years that could be the new hotspot for you know, people living, you just don't know what all of this money going into these zones is going to help. But
David Sillaman
look at Austin, Texas, you know, look at Tampa, Florida, these are all markets that are the highest growing markets in the country, that all have major opportunities as a major support for opportunity zones.
Mike Stohler
That's amazing. Now, what are going to be devil's advocate? What's some of the the bad thing some of the cons? You know, what could happen? Right
David Sillaman
question? Very, very bullish called the new killer option? Yeah. Is I'm a passive investor, go back to that crypto example, with the Bitcoin I invest in your fund your funds, not real. You close up shop, I'm thinking 10 years, three years into it, you raised few million dollars, you're gone. And I'm not even thinking I'm going to see a return for the next three years. Right? Because the waterfall you showed me drew me a 10 year horizon. So I'm none the wiser, until it's too late. Right? That's, that's number one. Now, what does that cause that's the fraud. And that then causes, you know, huge news media picks it up, Congress picks it up negative changes to the program. So that's the mess. That's the new option. In my mind. The bigger options are looking at the market space, and you got a lot of GPS that are first time GPS, which, you know, there's nothing wrong with being a first time GP, if you've got a good deal, you got to start somewhere, right. Unlike other deals, opportunities on deals don't have any typical prior performance, because of the fact that there's a lot of new GPS, so not only at the deal level, but even at the GP level, you don't have prior performance. So they're ultra high risk right there. Just in that sense, everything has been forecasted out. So then you got to take into consideration economic conditions, market conditions, exit strategy conditions, you know, if I'm in real estate in my leveraging my selling like, what am I doing? You? What are rates gonna be like, what's the equity value going to be like, are gonna be good market down market buyer seller, etc? Right? If I'm a business, am I buying back my equity? Am I going public? Am I selling the company? What am I? How am I ultimately creating the exit for Dave Silverman who put money into Mike Mike's fund? Right? So understanding a good exit strategy. Um, and then, at the end of the day, reporting is kind of weird, alright, because I report to the IRS, hey, I put money in Mike's fund. Mike's fund reports to the IRS saying hey, Dave, sell them and put money in into our fun. And we put money into, you know, ABC business, right? ABC business does not report anything to the IRS saying that they are opportunity zone eligible. Because not just everything is ineligible, especially with businesses, it's got to be basically 2018 or newer. So effectively a startup, right. So that would be one is where the fund made a mistake. It didn't invest the right way it couldn't find the right project. And then there's pent up there's, you know, penalties and interest for not properly deploying money fast enough. Another thing is, is that when you're when I'm a passive investor and looking at opportunities on funds, sometimes some of the funds that have got massive sums of money in them already. We're usually no one wants to be the first or second investor into a fund, right? No one wants to be that guy. So, you know, it's exceptionally hard, just just breaking that barrier. But once you do it's feathers after that right now. Now, no one's the first but you're looking out for funds that are raising too much too soon. Because there is time parameters that you know, and if you mess that up, and you've got you've over capitalized in standard private equity, great, we over capitalized, we'll take our time we'll get it right. Without the opportunities on program. You don't have that. So, you know, you've got to get it right. You've got to know that, hey, I'm deploying in something eligible, I'm able to put that money to work in a timely manner, because if not, then it could jeopardize the standing of the fund. If the funds standing gets jeopardized, then my standing as a deferred investor in Fun gets jeopardized, which can accelerate than tax and interest in penalties on what I thought was just, you know, good money safe money being deferred, because, you know, I invested into an opportunity zone fund. So those are the big risks. And then, you know, at the end of the day, also, like you mentioned, as far as, you know, understanding demographics in the market, where the market is going, you know, the program is not designed to polish the turd, it's not going to make a bad deal. Great. I'll make a good deal. Great, I'll make a great deal even better. But knowing the demographic know on the market, where's it going to be out in 10 years? You know, is this gonna get done? Is there gonna be more growth, you know, knowing that kind of stuff and thinking that you're going to have a viable exit, because for me, it goes back to the eggs. If I put money in, it's one thing to do it, put money in and get all the benefits of it. It's another thing to get it out. And so that's, that's what I look at.
Mike Stohler
Well, David, it's been a pleasure and extremely knowledgeable. I hope everyone well, I shouldn't say hope I know. Everyone's gonna go Wow. Okay, the opportunity zones, and not just this one thing. I appreciate your time. None. It's
David Sillaman
so much more it is
Mike Stohler
I just thought it was just one thing. And I thought it was just real estate deal. Maybe it's just because that's all I think about how can everyone find you?
David Sillaman
So the easiest way is just go to opportunity. zones.org. And whether they have questions, whether they want to learn more whether they want to set up a fund, find a fund. Maybe I am a fund already, I want to find a property, all of that opportunity. zones.org has been set up including navigating to easy Oh Z, our coastal program you can it's like the airport, whatever you need to get to you can get to it right from opportunity. zones.org
Mike Stohler Perfect. David, I appreciate the time.
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ABOUT DAVID SILLAMAN
David Sillaman is a nationally recognized speaker and expert on opportunity zone funds. He is currently responsible for developing over $15 billion opportunity zone funds (Over 70 of them), helping GP/Sponsors raise $750 million and is recognized as a top 25 fund manager and top 10 opportunities zone fund expert in the country. He's a recognized expert on the Forbes real estate Council and consults with multiple government agencies on opportunity zone fund business advocacy across the country.
Even though opportunity zones were mentioned in the State of the Union address the other day, the business media has not truly embraced speaking about not only the potential of opportunity zones, but how both investors, fund managers and companies can use and leverage opportunity zone funds as a vehicle for funding for their growth businesses.