#199: Is Gold Still The Ultimate Safe Haven in 2024?
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Welcome back to another episode of The Richer Geek Podcast! We hope you had a wonderful Thanksgiving last week filled with gratitude, good food, and great company. As we dive into December, we're bringing you an exciting discussion about the power of gold in today’s economy.
Today, we’re joined by Dean Heskin, President and CEO of Swiss America Trading Corporation, to explore why gold remains a top safe haven investment. With nearly three decades of expertise, Dean shares his insights on why gold is expected to experience significant gains in the coming years, despite financial instability.
Be sure to check out FAQs About Gold Investing for everything you need to know about making smart decisions in this gold rush.
In this episode, we're discussing:
Soaring National Debt: The U.S. national debt continues to climb, with daily interest payments reaching a staggering $3 billion.
Gold's Bullish Outlook: Economic uncertainty and rising debt are driving predictions of significant growth for gold in the coming years.
BRICS Challenge to the Dollar: The BRICS alliance, with its new gold-backed currency, is poised to disrupt the global financial landscape.
Safeguarding Wealth: As inflation and debt concerns persist, gold is emerging as a popular safe-haven investment for individuals and institutions alike.
Timing Your Gold Investment: Learn why experts believe now is an opportune moment to consider adding gold to your investment portfolio.
Resources from Dean
LinkedIn | Swiss America Trading Corporation | FAQs about gold investing
Resources from Mike and Nichole
+ Read the transcript
Mike Stohler
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of The Richer Geek Podcast. Today we have Dean Heskin. He's the President and CEO of Swiss America Trading Corporation. He started with the firm in 1992 as an account executive, and then I guess he did some good stuff, because he's named CEO in 2012.or nearly 30 years, his opinions and perspectives have been sought after and shared with many you may have read, seen, heard him on Fox News, The Wilkow Majority, The Wayne Allyn Root Show, CBS MarketWatch, Off the Grid, one of my favorite and Real Money Perspectives. How you doing, Dean?
Dean Heskin
Doing great. Thanks, Mike. Thanks for having me
Mike Stohler
Absolutely. I mean, my gut started out as an account exec, now the CEO and President. Where did you get all that? The starting of Dean, tell us a little bit about your background.
Dean Heskin
Well, depending on how early you want to go. I think specific to my current position here in my capacity at Swiss America, my father did tax preparation, accounting work as well as investment. He started getting new investments later on in his career, and from an early age, I kind of was just in that type of environment, if you will. I mean, at the age of 12, my dad had me do the daily deposits for his company, which I have two daughters and son, and for my second marriage, a few children as well. And as I look at them at the age of 12 and think, I'm going to have them start doing deposit, my deposits for me, I to save my life. I wouldn't do it, but I just have been exposed to that early on. You know, I started off doing investment banking while still attending college at ASU, one of those things that just took for me. I really enjoy, and I'm fascinated by, what goes on in the world of finance, the economy. I mean, it pertains to all of us. And it really is like reading a book that just keeps on going. I mean, they can just keep turning page after page, and it never gets boring. It seems it gets interesting.
Dean Heskin
Sometimes it gets a little dicey, but it definitely is something that really is an interesting thing to kind of sink your teeth into and watch and observe and deal with when starting off in investment banking. I just also had a grandmother who, my whole entire life, was really big on buying gold. She just loved the prospect of owning gold. She actually had, at one point, gifted me some shares in a mine that she had invested into. So I don't know. I often think back, and I think about how I got out of investment banking and into metals, and the road that got me here. And it does seem like an interesting one, but then, by the same token, like interesting, meaning odd, but by the same token, it just seems to have worked out well. And now I'm, good lord, a little over 32 years in this, something that is just becoming kind of part of who I am. And I say it in a very positive way.
Mike Stohler
Yeah, it's so funny. I think of you as someone who doesn't know anything about gold. I know gold is good. You hear all these rumors and things like that. You know one of them, and probably a lot of myths, and one of them you may laugh at is, I heard someone say you're not allowed to own gold, like in your vault. You can't do it because the government can take it away, or something like that. Is that true?
Dean Heskin
It is true. We had gold confiscation that took place in 1933 and the way it was presented to the American public at the time, gold and silver were our currency from the beginning, when our nation was first founded or established. And what they started to do, because coins are heavy and bulky, etc, then they had the idea of coming out with paper currency, because it's lighter you can slip into your pocket and so on and so forth. So the paper was, however, supposed to be a representation of the actual physical metal. So you had a $20 bill, a $20 gold piece, the bank was going to hold on to that $20 gold piece, and if you ever wanted to take that paper back in and turn it, get that gold piece back, you could do so well, much like today, what the bank started doing is putting out more pieces of paper than they actually had gold due to some of the things that were going on in our country, in our nation at the time, we needed to better ground our financial economic system here. And so that's when the government said, "Okay, you now are required to surrender all of your gold," making it illegal to own it anymore, and in return, you again take a $20 gold piece of $10, a $5, $2.50, whatever it might be.
Dean Heskin
They would give you that certificate, that piece of paper, in lieu of the gold piece that you just turned in. Now, the interesting thing about this too, Mike, people don't realize is that, okay, it was a $20 bill, $20 gold piece, even exchange. Well, as this was going on, the actual world price, or value of gold at the time was $35 an ounce. So right out of the chutes, it was a pretty healthy profit for the government. You know, getting gold at $20 that actually had a real market value of $35 so there was this blackout window from 1933 until the 70s, where we were not able to own gold in this country. And then in the 70s, they allowed us to, yet again, own gold. And hence that's when the physical market started to grow. But people say, "Okay, well, that was 1933 they couldn't do that today." They can do it. It's happened in other countries around the world. But the really interesting thing about it is even if you look in modern day, during the Reagan administration. Ronald Reagan took a positive stance against apartheid in South Africa. Well, part of that was he made it illegal for people to buy, sell, or trade in this country with South African Krugerrands.
Dean Heskin
And the reason I make mention of that is because Reagan was president in the 80s. So there was, you had the 30s, yes, but that was the 80s. And it just speaks to the fact that they have the ability to do it. They can come in and do it. And that's where you know, is it a concern? Should be something that people are aware of. There are ways around that. There are what are considered to be types of or forms of gold and silver that are not required to be turned in, and it's a term called numismatic, which is a lot scarier. It's not nearly as scary, excuse me, as it sounds. It just means that it's a form of gold that has value based on other factors, like its quality, its condition, its scarcity, and they have even in '33 been given exclusionary privileges to government confiscation.
Dean Heskin
But yes, it is. It's a real thing, just something to be aware of. And that's why at Swiss America, what we have advocated for as a company we've been around for over 40 years now is what differentiates us, like from a lot of the other companies out there, is, you won't find us even in our commercials. Our ads typically overtly just talk about, buy silver, buy gold. What we'll be talking about is, hey, there are some problems that are brewing in our economy. Maybe our financial markets look a little challenged or maybe threatened. There might be some problems in our banking industry. Find out more about these problems and find out some solutions, at which time you know, we will present them with the concept of diversification and being properly balanced in a portfolio and being in the investment business, as long as I have Mike, the average person believes diversification means, 10 or 12 different stocks, maybe a couple different mutual funds, a money market, maybe some ETFs and those great investments, all good things to have, depending on what's happening in the market. But real diversification will look something like real estate, those stocks, those bonds, those mutual funds, gold, silver, cash or cash equivalents. That's what a truly diversified portfolio looks like, and it's something that you'd be amazed or maybe not. How many people are just ill familiar with that concept? Because the way it works, especially in the United States of America, you have a wealth manager and advisor who basically the benefit that they derive financially, and what their job is is to promote or sell products that they deal in.
Dean Heskin
Every dollar of a product that they don't deal in that's lost revenue and income to them. And so that's where it begins gets to be a little challenging for people, is because they they have these people, and I'm sure, really good people, and they trust them, but they're only able to do as much as they're able to do, it'd be kind of like you have the best doctor in the world. He's your cardiologist. You're having a problem, however, with your stomach, something gastrointestinal. So as good as that cardiologist is, if you want to get that problem fixed, you have to go see the other guy. And there are two great doctors, let's say, but they have two totally different functionalities. And that's something that I couldn't stress enough for people is to make sure that you're talking to the person who is really going to give you the best input and the best direction that they can in those areas.
Mike Stohler
Man, that hits me hard right here, because about 20 years ago, I said I went to our financial advisor and said, "Hey, I want to buy gold." "Ah, you don't want to buy gold. I've got this mining company, this mutual fund that has mining companies." He got a kick before and after, right? I mean, that's his commission. He didn't want to sell me gold. I didn't know any better, you know? And it was 400 an ounce, right? I was like, "Oh my god, if I hadn't known Swiss America, if I had known Dean at the time, I'd be in a much different place." But like you said, he's a financial advisor. He wanted to put me in what he made commissions in.
Dean Heskin
Not to say they're bad people and not to say that their intentions aren't even pure. You know, a person can only give you the direction that they have the knowledge enough to give you that direction. If it's something that's outside of their realm, there shouldn't be an expectation that it is something that you know, that they would deal with. In fact, that's really by and large, where ETFs were kind of birthed out of is that gold just started taking off, and a lot of the investment firms out there were like, kind of to your point. People were buying. Mining shares or mining funds, and they weren't doing as well for them as they thought they would. And that's a whole nother discussion we can have, but that's where ETFs was like, "Okay, well, at least now this is something that is a representation of gold." And for anyone tuning in not saying ETFs are bad, but don't kid yourself. ETFs are not physical gold. You're making a play on the tradability of gold.
Dean Heskin
And my point in making that distinction is that one of the advantages to physical gold, physical gold is that, God forbid we have some like we saw with the Silicon Valley Bank, where banks are shutting down and you don't have access to your money or back during during market crash we had during tragedy of 9/11 where the stock market was frozen for days on end with physical gold. The beauty of it is the value is based on what it is. It's an unencumbered asset. In other words, it doesn't like a share of stock requires someone else's ability to be confident, to buy that from you in order to give it value, if you will. Whereas, like, if you take an ounce of gold, yes, it trades in US dollars. but as we speak, it's also trading in Mark and Yen, in Euro and Lira. You go to every currency throughout the world. So it's not dollar dependent in terms of its value. And when I say gold, just for those tuning in, it's the same applies to silver. They are referred to as sympathetic metals, the process of mining gold, silver is a byproduct of in fact, silver today is at $30 an ounce. And I was just doing a commentary yesterday where some of the projections, probably towards the later part of next year, is as much as $50 an ounce silver. And it looks very promising that that's going to happen. But the point being is that tangible metals, their value is not derived or dependent upon the US dollar. They have universal support based on what they are of every currency out there.
Mike Stohler
So that's why gold remains a popular choice, is because it's not attached to anything. It is what it is, right? What are some of the ways that you can invest in gold? We kind of talked about the ETFs a little bit, but in precious metals itself, when I'm trying to decide which option is right for me, you know, what's some of the factors that determine am I going to buy actual gold in the funds or in mutual funds? What are some of the different ways to invest in gold?
Dean Heskin
You've hit on a few of them there for sure. You can do it through mining shares. You can do it through funds. You can do it through ETFs. When you start getting into the physical market, there are options or varieties there. There are newly minted issues, such as Canadian Maple Leafs, American Eagles, we mentioned crew brands a moment ago. And then when you start getting into what are referred to, typically as the more private, non-confiscated, non-reportable forms of gold, then that's typically going to be like a pre-1933 $20 gold piece, $10, $5, $2.50. They go all the way down, actually, into the $1 silver pieces as well that are pre-1933 silver. Our coinage here in the United States maintained a 90% silver for the most part up until 1964 so anything pre-1965 will have that 90% silver. So you could buy those forms as well. That's really you're asking it a better question than maybe you even realize there Mike, in so much is that, again, getting into physical gold is distinctly different from the paper representations of gold that we just mentioned.
Dean Heskin
And one of the best things to do, and that's this is how we've been operating or functioning now for over 40 years, contact, preferably our company, but a company like ours that is respected and trusted, and not just because you see their ads all the time, but do your homework. If need be, you'd feel free and go to our website. You can look at all the credentials, our longevity, our history, and the bottom line is, talk to one of our representatives and ask some questions. They'll give you some information and give you a very good foundation of understanding, and then you can kind of start putting the pieces of the puzzle together. One of the things that you know, I don't personally, per se, Mike, deal with the customers direct, like I used to years ago, but just given I'm doing things like this now and what have you, but one of the things I still do, and I really enjoy, is I review the the our customer satisfaction surveys, and I like it for, obviously, to make sure that, see if there's a problem, and occasionally, there is a small issue here, there, or whatever. And I want to make sure that we stay on top of that. But I, if I'm being honest and selfish about it, what I really love is the vast majority of people close to all of them are just people saying, "Wow, thank you for the education. Thank you for taking the time. Thank you for explaining things. I couldn't be happier with this investment." Like you said a moment ago, I wish I would have known about this years ago.
Mike Stohler
Yeah, and everybody, there's Dean Heskin, CEO of Swiss America Trading Corporation. So look them up, Swiss America. We've had all this inflation, all this, just kind of turmoil, wars going on, and gold still going up. I should say I should know this, but, I mean, what factors are driving because you said it's a standalone but is it when economies are down, gold goes up or I mean, how does that work? Why is gold still going up?
Dean Heskin
That's a very good question. Full disclosure here, we just finished the presidential election, and I'm not ashamed to say I was happy with the outcome. The last four years I think have really bloodied up a lot of American households and families out there, financially speaking, and I'm hopeful that this new administration, Trump 2.0 we'll call it, is going to going to help that I do believe, if nothing else, there's a greater this administration will have a greater sensitivity to the needs of American households and families as it relates to what they're paying at the pump, what they're paying in the grocery store and things of that nature. And answer your question. However, when the election was over, I really expected to see a huge pullback in gold, just with people optimistically thinking, "Okay, everything's good, we're safe."And no, no reason to have a hedge or protectionary type portfolio anymore. We did see a little bit of pullback gold. Actually, many of the experts or analysts out there, we're referring to, like Goldman, Sachs, UBS, JP, Morgan, Raymond James. You go right through the whole list, they're expecting gold to have some of the best gains ever in the next few years. And the reason being is that there's problems that we're dealing with in our economy.
Dean Heskin
And in fairness to the Biden administration, they didn't create all the problems. I just don't think they did a lot to really help them. But you look at our debts and our deficits, just using that as an example, the interest alone that we're paying on our national debt right now, if I remember correctly, it's $3 billion a day. I mean, you're talking and mind you, when it comes to the interest on the debts and deficits, Mike, that interest doesn't have a Monday through Friday job that's a seven day a week, holidays included, job that interest just keeps accruing. This is something that is, I mean, we had an increase in the debt this summer, 5% in one month. These are numbers that are mathematically not sustainable. They'd be really good if they were returned on your and my investment. But when you're talking about the national debt and the deficits, that's a problem. And so that's where with gold prices, in fact, I read an interesting commentary I think was through the daily reckoning A little while back. And it was interesting. They were talking about how realistically gold should be selling for about $40,000 an ounce. And their point in saying that was, if you monetize it to the debt, that's really what it should be pegged at. And the point of the whole discussion being, is that there is just too much debt out there. There's too much current fiat currency out there. At some point that is going to come home to roost, if you will. And when it does, that's where traditionally you find that gold has been perceived as that safe haven and that that asset class that you want to be in, which is why, if you don't want to take my word for it, you think all these investment firms may be overly optimistic. This is why central banks are buying more gold than they ever have in the history of mankind. We have this newly formed alliance, and that's what they call themselves, the BRICS Alliance, which used to be Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa, but it actually now is dozens of nations jumping on board, and they're coming out with their own currency. And there's two main things that are attracting countries to join this BRICS alliance, which really it's not an alliance. It's more of a movement at point, but the two things being that they are going to come out with a currency that is partially backed by gold.
Dean Heskin
They have said as much as 40% backed by gold, the remaining 60% would be strength derived from the participating nations and the value of their currency, which is certainly a lot stronger than when you have, like, just a single currency or a single nation out there. But the second thing is it, which is really a kind of a slam dunk home run for getting people to participate is one of the the natural byproducts to their involvement with bricks and how they're able to no longer have to deal with dollars in order to they're not dollar dependent in terms of their commerce and trade, but they can now utilize their own domestic currency. It will automatically bolster their local economy, their domestic economy and their currencies. So it's not just us gold touting guys that are the ones talking about gold, not even just, again, some of these investment firms out there that are talking about it. But look at the central banks, and look at what bricks are doing. And when you look at follow their lead, they're doing it for good reason, because they understand the fragility our financial markets and currency systems out there, and to be clear, their currency system of the world that we're looking at today, I would be shocked beyond measure if five years from now, if not sooner, it doesn't exist as we know it.
Mike Stohler
Wow. And it's amazing. People are listening to that, and they're like, "Okay, maybe I should buy some gold." So they go to Swiss America's website. What do they find? How do they get more information?
Dean Heskin
Two things. Well, a few things I could do. Going to the website is fantastic, at www.swissamerica.com which is all one word, s, w, i, s, s, america.com, you'll see right on there. You can fill out a registration form, send me information, fill that out, and they'll shoot it off to you. You can also text us at that number. The other thing is, you can call us at that phone number. And calling I know is a little archaic anymore. I still kind of prefer it. I do text quite a bit, just because of my schedule and things that where I'm not really maybe able to jump on a call right away, but calling's good, just from the standpoint that number one, you have to kind of take me at my word on this, but I only really try to hire nice people, not bad people or mean people. So you'll find a friendly voice on the other end of the phone. I pretty well assure you that, short of somebody having a bad day, and if they are, I want to know about it, but you can have a conversation. Maybe tell them a little bit about what a few of the questions you have? Maybe get a couple quick answers. The worst thing a person could do, Mike, is to not call or contact us or someone like us, but again, preferably us, because what you don't want to be a victim of is not doing something because you don't know or you don't understand. Take the time to know, take the time to understand. Give yourself at least a fighting chance and a foundation to work from, and then go from there.
Mike Stohler
Yeah, it sounds good. And I've been on your website, you have some educational materials. So what I want is, yes, maybe I know that gold is the right thing to do, but give me some education on the back end. It's like, why get some of the history, what's going on in the world, some of the market updates, which I appreciate, instead of just because I know some of these sites, it's like, you can't get a hold of anyone. Now, I appreciate the fact that with Swiss America, you can actually pick up the phone call and get someone right, which is nice because there's some investments that I have. It's like going, you know what? I've been trying for months, and you just cannot get a live person. I mean, you just cannot do it. So I appreciate that so much. Yeah, I know. And someone understands our language a little bit better than.
Mike Stohler
Before I let you go, is there anything that you may want to inform our listeners to that maybe I haven't hit?
Dean Heskin
I think you've hit a lot. I think you've done a fantastic job. The only other thing I would say is we are just days away from Thanksgiving, and tell your listeners, I wish you all a very happy Thanksgiving. And as I told our meeting we had on Monday with all of our people here, I said, "Listen, this is a time to be thankful." To be thankful for all the blessings in your life, albeit your health, your family, your wealth, whatever it is, be thankful. But then also, remember what a blessing you are to everyone that is in your life. So keep those to be thankful for the blessings you have, but also be thankful for the blessing that you are, and have a happy Thanksgiving.
Mike Stohler
Amen. Dean Heskin, CEO of Swiss America Trading Corporation, thank you so much for coming on The Richer Geek Podcast. Have a great day.
Dean Heskin
Thank you. You as well.
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ABOUT DEAN HESKIN
Dean Heskin is President and CEO of Swiss America Trading Corporation. Mr. Heskin started with the firm in 1992 as an account executive and was named CEO in 2012. For nearly thirty years Mr. Heskin's opinions and perspectives have been sought after and shared with many. You may have read, seen or heard him on the numerous media interviews he's conducted with Fox News, The Wilkow Majority, The Wayne Allen Root Show, CBS MarketWatch, Off the Grid or Real Money Perspectives. Dean is happily married, has five children and currently resides in Scottsdale, Arizona.